Changes in RCT2 I didn't like (ie can OpenRCT2 go back to 1?)

[Batchman]

While I love some of the changes that came with RCT2 (and even more with OpenRCT2), there are also some I wasn't so fond of. Some of the rides that were made more flexible, and had more track options added on to them were great! Some of the tracks which lost flexibility, not so much.

In RCT1, the Junior Roller Coaster was able to do level to steep track transitions. In RCT2 (I assume) and OpenRCT2 it can't. I realize there may not be much chance, but no harm in asking ... can OpenRCT2 eventually add these level to steep transitions back in (kind of like wild mouse tracks.)

Have some very nice RCT1 compact layout coasters that I've developed a fondness for that I just can't use on RCT2 because of this change, and I'd like to get them back.

[Deurklink]

In OpenRCT2, go to the cheat menu, then go the rides tab, and click the box 'Enable all drawable track pieces' 

[Batchman]

There's a cheat to already allow this? Very cool!

One other question ... just in case anyone might know the answer.

If you build a ride, and use a cheat like some of these to make it work, then save it, do you need to activate the cheat any time you use it? Or only when you are building it?

[Deurklink]

Not sure. I advise you to play with it and find out 

[Broxzier]

The track is saved, however for modifying it or building another, you'll have to reactivate the cheat. Cheats are not saved, so you will need to activate it every time you load a new park.

Edited December 20, 2017 by Broxzier

[Batchman]

On 12/19/2017 at 17:45, Deurklink said:

In OpenRCT2, go to the cheat menu, then go the rides tab, and click the box 'Enable all drawable track pieces' 

Unfortunately, my version doesn't turn out to have that item on the cheat menu. Hmmm.

[Deurklink]

27 minutes ago, Batchman said:

Unfortunately, my version doesn't turn out to have that item on the cheat menu. Hmmm.

Then you should either download the newest build or download the launcher so you always have the latest version 

[Batchman]

Yup, went and got the launcher. Newest build, that cheat was there.

Which just led to other problems and the need for more cheats. Some of the physics changed between RCT1 and either RCT2 or OpenRCT2 ... a coaster that barely made it into the station at the end of it's inertia in RCT1 now runs out of gas 2 pieces before the end of the track, requiring the any piece lift track cheat as well.

It ain't fair, I tells ya!

[Broxzier]

Vehicle behaviour will not be changed. If we do, existing tracks may crash or not finish anymore. 

[saxman1089]

That sounds to me like it may have been an RCT to RCT2 change. You can 1) rebuild the coaster to make it work, or 2) you can change the value for mass of the trains so that the trains complete the circuit. You can do this through the console window in the debugging menu. 

https://github.com/OpenRCT2/OpenRCT2/wiki/Console

 

 

[X7123M3-256]

I doubt the vehicle physics have been changed. When I ported the RCT1 junior trains to RCT2, I found the physics to be an exact match - as in the train would be going exactly the same speed at different points on the track. There's still room for some error, since speeds are stored internally to a higher degree of precision than they are displayed - but I would be surprised if it was enough to make a ride stall that didn't before.

I think the difference is probably because you're running RCT2 trains on a ride designed to run RCT1 trains, and the mass values are probably different. But you can override that with the console.

 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2017 by X7123M3-256

[Xardoz]

On 19/12/2017 at 22:59, Batchman said:

While I love some of the changes that came with RCT2 (and even more with OpenRCT2), there are also some I wasn't so fond of. Some of the rides that were made more flexible, and had more track options added on to them were great! Some of the tracks which lost flexibility, not so much.

In RCT1, the Junior Roller Coaster was able to do level to steep track transitions. In RCT2 (I assume) and OpenRCT2 it can't. I realize there may not be much chance, but no harm in asking ... can OpenRCT2 eventually add these level to steep transitions back in (kind of like wild mouse tracks.)

Have some very nice RCT1 compact layout coasters that I've developed a fondness for that I just can't use on RCT2 because of this change, and I'd like to get them back.

Concerning steep tracks for Junior Roller Coaster : is it normal that I can't access to them, except when I activate cheats ?

I saw here https://github.com/OpenRCT2/OpenRCT2/wiki/Changes-to-original-game that it has been included ("steep inclines for the Junior Roller Coaster"), but like I said, I can't see them if I don't activate cheats ?

Edited January 3, 2018 by Xardoz

[Deurklink]

1 minute ago, Xardoz said:

Concerning steep tracks for Junior Roller Coaster : is it normal that I can't access to them, except when I activate cheats ?

I saw here https://github.com/OpenRCT2/OpenRCT2/wiki/Changes-to-original-game that it has been included "steep inclines for the Junior Roller Coaster", but like I said, I can't see them if I don't activate cheats ?

OpenRCT2 is based on the RCT2 engine, which didn't allow the steep pieces on a junior coaster. So in order to see them, you need to use a cheat. It's very easy to do this in OpenRCT2, however .

[Xardoz]

1 minute ago, Deurklink said:

OpenRCT2 is based on the RCT2 engine, which didn't allow the steep pieces on a junior coaster. So in order to see them, you need to use a cheat. It's very easy to do this in OpenRCT2, however .

Okay

I thought it was implemented "by default" when I saw the page I linked, that's why I was a bit confused Is there a way to keep cheats always on ? (like an "usual" option ?)

On 19/12/2017 at 23:45, Deurklink said:

In OpenRCT2, go to the cheat menu, then go the rides tab, and click the box 'Enable all drawable track pieces' 

I followed your instruction and it's working great Is this allowing only this specific tracks for the junior RC, or are some other coasters affected ?

Thank you very much for the answer & the help !

[X7123M3-256]

8 minutes ago, Xardoz said:

I thought it was implemented "by default" when I saw the page I linked

It used to be. I don't know why it was changed.

9 minutes ago, Xardoz said:

Is there a way to keep cheats always on ? (like an "usual" option ?)

Not that I know of.

10 minutes ago, Xardoz said:

Is this allowing only this specific tracks for the junior RC, or are some other coasters affected ?

As far as I can tell it's just the junior coaster. The vertical drop coaster should be affected (there are quite a few inversion pieces that are supported but disabled by default), but upon testing, it doesn't seem to work. You'll have to rely on arbitrary ride types to access those pieces.

[Deurklink]

2 minutes ago, X7123M3-256 said:

As far as I can tell it's just the junior coaster. The vertical drop coaster should be affected (there are quite a few inversion pieces that are supported but disabled by default), but upon testing, it doesn't seem to work. You'll have to rely on arbitrary ride types to access those pieces.

The cheat also affects hyper-twister roller coasters.. By default you cannot run those when there's an inversion on the track, however (Probably coded like that because they don't have sprites for inversions).

[X7123M3-256]

OK, that's good to know (I haven't really used this cheat much). If the hyper-twister is affected then the hyper and corkscrew coasters should also be affected - the corkscrew coaster will get steep-to-flat (which it should have had anyway IMO), and the hypercoaster will get inversions.

But it's worth pointing out that these track pieces were all present in vanilla - they are just not used by the specific vehicle type. The steep slopes on the junior coaster and inversions on the dive coaster are OpenRCT2 specific, and don't work in vanilla.

[jensj12]

12 hours ago, Xardoz said:

I thought it was implemented "by default" when I saw the page I linked, that's why I was a bit confused Is there a way to keep cheats always on ? (like an "usual" option ?)

Cheats once remained active while switching games, but some cheats may lead to unintended consequences (like disable clearance checks). Cheats are planned to be saved in the save, so loading a park will enable the same cheats as when you saved it. Just wait for a new save format and cheats will be properly saved again. May still take a few months or even years though.

[Xardoz]

22 hours ago, X7123M3-256 said:

[...] But it's worth pointing out that these track pieces were all present in vanilla - they are just not used by the specific vehicle type. The steep slopes on the junior coaster and inversions on the dive coaster are OpenRCT2 specific, and don't work in vanilla.

That's what I wanted to know : if it was allowing something "new" compared to the base game.

But I don't understand : "they are just not used by the specific vehicle type" ? Because the "basic" vehicles (Ladybirds trains) are compatible with steep tracks in RCT1 so I'm a bit confused : you wasn't needing a specific train ?

10 hours ago, jensj12 said:

Cheats once remained active while switching games, but some cheats may lead to unintended consequences (like disable clearance checks). Cheats are planned to be saved in the save, so loading a park will enable the same cheats as when you saved it. Just wait for a new save format and cheats will be properly saved again. May still take a few months or even years though.

Okay I prefer to avoid unintended consequences when possible

And there's no hurry at all, that's really not a big deal here

[X7123M3-256]

Just now, Xardoz said:

But I don't understand : "they are just not used by the specific vehicle type" ?

Specific vehicles can disallow certain track pieces that would otherwise be available. This is most prominently used on the hyper and hyper-twister coasters, which do not allow inversions despite the fact that the track they run on does have those pieces. Using this cheat, you can overrides this restriction and build inversions on a hypercoaster. But the track pieces were always there, the vanilla game just doesn't let you build them when you are using that vehicle type.

However, in vanilla RCT2, the junior coaster does not have steep slopes. They are not merely hidden,  they are not there, and the game crashes if you try to use them. These pieces have been added in OpenRCT2. You enable them with the same cheat, but whereas inversions on a hypercoaster will work in vanilla, steep slopes on a junior coaster will crash.

This is only relevant if you want your park to work in vanilla - in which case you should use a track merge instead. If you only need your park to work in OpenRCT2 you don't have to worry about which features are present in vanilla and which aren't.

Just now, Xardoz said:

Because the "basic" vehicles (Ladybirds trains) are compatible with steep tracks in RCT1 so I'm a bit confused : you wasn't needing a specific train ?

The junior coaster has and has always had the same pieces no matter what train you use, I was referring to the hypercoaster and a couple of other rides.

[Xardoz]

15 minutes ago, X7123M3-256 said:

Specific vehicles can disallow certain track pieces that would otherwise be available. This is most prominently used on the hyper and hyper-twister coasters, which do not allow inversions despite the fact that the track they run on does have those pieces. Using this cheat, you can overrides this restriction and build inversions on a hypercoaster. But the track pieces were always there, the vanilla game just doesn't let you build them when you are using that vehicle type.

However, in vanilla RCT2, the junior coaster does not have steep slopes. They are not merely hidden,  they are not there, and the game crashes if you try to use them. These pieces have been added in OpenRCT2. You enable them with the same cheat, but whereas inversions on a hypercoaster will work in vanilla, steep slopes on a junior coaster will crash.

This is only relevant if you want your park to work in vanilla - in which case you should use a track merge instead. If you only need your park to work in OpenRCT2 you don't have to worry about which features are present in vanilla and which aren't.

Ah ok, this is mainly an issue if you want to have compatible parks with vanilla, which isn't my case.

I was only missing this tracks for replaying some scenarios of RCT1 with OpenRCT2 (because I'm building often Junior RC with steeptracks in RCT1), and since they were "implemented" in OpenRCT2, I was hoping to be able to use them in RCT2 scenarios thanks to OpenRCT2. And it'll be the case so it's great

I didn't knew that for the hypercoaster !

21 minutes ago, X7123M3-256 said:

The junior coaster has and has always had the same pieces no matter what train you use, I was referring to the hypercoaster and a couple of other rides.

Oh, ok !

Thanks for the explanations