Guests suddenly decreasing

[TheMathsGod]

I've been playing this save game for a while, and the park rating has been at 999 for quite some time, with a few drops here and there, which are kind of expected given the size of the park. But the guest numbers have been steadily increasing ever since the park was built, aside from one drop where I accidentally disconnected a ride exit path causing guests to get stuck, complain about crowding, and then leave once I reconnected the path.

Recently, however, the number of guests has been dropping. I've also got about 200 guests complaining about "It's too crowded here", quite near two rides that I build fairly recently: The top spin and "Ladybird Loop". Perhaps this crowding is due to the positioning of the rides, but I haven't had this problem elsewhere in the park. It could also be due to a recent crash caused by a brakes failure (on the ONE coaster I didn't use brakes and block brakes), but I did since put in brakes and block brakes, and reset the crash status so peeps will actually ride it again.

Anyone know what the problem is, and how to sort it? This is the area with the peep crowding issues:

And this is the save file (Uses custom scenery but no expansions as I'm using a disk version without them):

Wild Woods 2.sv6

[LordMarcel96]

I think there are two problems at play here. The first is that you have a bad path layout. You have a couple of dead ends and some loops that go nowhere, which both confuse the guests. This causes guests to not be able to find rides and get lost (I also got red messages about guests getting lost), which causes them to want to leave. The second reason is probably that you reached the guest limit for the number of rides you have. Once you reach the limit, the game will start generating guests at a much slower pace while guests will still leave at the same pace, causing a decrease in guests. When I ran your park for a couple of years, the guest count stagnated around 3225 guests, and eventually, it started picking up again. 200 guests complaining about overcrowding in a park of over 3200 guests isn't a problem. Overcrowding doesn't become a problem until about 1/4 or more of your guests complain about it.

[Deurklink]

This guide explains what the conditions for guest spawning are:

If you read this you will know everything you need to know in order for your number of guests to start increasing again.

[TheMathsGod]

8 hours ago, LordMarcel96 said:

I think there are two problems at play here. The first is that you have a bad path layout. You have a couple of dead ends and some loops that go nowhere, which both confuse the guests. This causes guests to not be able to find rides and get lost (I also got red messages about guests getting lost), which causes them to want to leave.

I have a couple of things to say here:

1) Would making that section with the two loops (shown on the screenshot above) into a single large food court help at all? Or should I turn it into a single path with the shops at the side?

2) Since I wanted to use a layout with more hilly terrain (mainly so I can incorporate it into rides), I've tried making the paths fit round the terrain, and try to reduce path complexity while working round the terrain, such as having the main path going straight down the centre. However, is there a better way I could do this? I've read about how peeps navigate (and the guest spawning guide), and tried to fit that in but I kind of prefer the look of this sort of layout.

3) About guests getting lost, I've seen a guest on one side successfully find their way to a ride on the other side of the park, and give up just a few tiles from the start of the queue line for the ride they're trying to get to. I've seen it's due to peep AI and it seems to happen quite often in large parks, so there's not really anything I can do about that.

8 hours ago, LordMarcel96 said:

The second reason is probably that you reached the guest limit for the number of rides you have. Once you reach the limit, the game will start generating guests at a much slower pace while guests will still leave at the same pace, causing a decrease in guests. When I ran your park for a couple of years, the guest count stagnated around 3225 guests, and eventually, it started picking up again. 200 guests complaining about overcrowding in a park of over 3200 guests isn't a problem. Overcrowding doesn't become a problem until about 1/4 or more of your guests complain about it.

I see your point there. According to the guide on guest generation, my suggested guest maximum is actually only 1953, and my park has over 3200.

As for the overcrowding, I understand that it's not much of a problem considering the size of park and numbers of guests, the problem is that this wasn't happening before, and has suddenly gone from maybe 1-2 to 200 guests complaining. This has also caused issues with litter, puking and hence vandalism in that area. I've been setting up security guard patrols round the food court areas where people usually sit and gather, but the vandalism is extending into paths without these patrols.

I guess from this it makes sense that I'm getting a decrease in guests. Plus, I have been getting several awards that increase the spawning probability, but haven't got any in a short while. This is probably due to the overcrowding in that area, and is likely contributing to the fall in guest numbers. I am however still unsure of what caused the sudden overcrowding problem in this area, possibly something to do with peep AI and the two nearby rides, but I'm not sure. The fact that it's only started recently after the path and food court has been there for ages is what's troubling me most.

[LordMarcel96]

Here we have a path system. It's well designed, apart from the two black loops. I'm not entirely sure, but I believe that if a guest can walk 270 degrees or more in a loop without having any exits, it has to possibility of being a place where they get lost. The one on the top is a full 360-degree loop without any exits, and the bottom on is 270 degrees because it has one exit on it. This doesn't go up if the loop in question is on the outside of the path system. I am coming up with this theory on the spot here, but it's something I use in my parks and I rarely get lost people, and if people get lost it's usually in these kinds of situations. Dead ends leading to a ride or stall are the worst idea, as they hinder the flow of your park and guests will often have a lot of trouble finding them. Long dead ends from exit paths also aren't the best, so it's best to put a no entry sign to prevent that. Short exit paths don't really matter, so if you have a lot of those and don't feel like placing 100 no entry signs, that's probably going to be fine. Removing the loops in the food court will probably solve the problem, so that's a good idea. Having a pathway that only goes to shops and nothing else isn't the best idea, even if it's just a loop.

 

 

Edited June 12, 2018 by LordMarcel96

[Deurklink]

Really there should just be as few junctions between any 2 points of the park as possible.

When trying to find their destinations, peeps will only look ahead a certain amount of junctions (more if they have a park map).

I see you use a lot of double stairs, which are notorious because they have junctions at the top and at the bottom, since they're treated as 2 single paths next to one another. It's may not really be an issue yet but it will become a lot worse when you expand.

(By the way, good job on calculating that suggested guest maximum, I just checked it in a debugger and you got the value exactly correct)

Edited June 12, 2018 by Deurklink

[saxman1089]

You should check all the paths in the area where you're having the problem. Make sure everything is connected properly. I've been building parks with really complicated path layouts for about a year now, and whenever I have a problem it has to do with connectivity of paths. Also, use the guest functions and try to determine where the peeps are heading. It's always helpful to do this, as it might lead to solving the issue.

I don't think it purely has to do with them being able to walk 360 deg around the loop. While that might contribute, I think it's more the position of the loop within the system and the fact that the loop doesn't have an exit on a side beyond of which lies half the park.  In Marcel's example, in order to get from one loop to the other, the peeps need to first walk in the opposite direction from their destination, which they aren't always smart enough to do. This is probably the OP's problem. The peeps in that loop might be trying to get to the bumper cars, but can't because they need to actually walk in the opposite direction from the bumper cars in order to get to them.